Beginners questions before first grow

Discussion in 'Outdoor Growing' started by KenBacon, Dec 20, 2017.

  1. KenBacon

    KenBacon Welcome to the CannaZone

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    Hi everyone, I have been transfixed as of late with growing my own cannabis, and after reading lots on the internet, I decided to create this tread with some questions I have before starting my very first grow.
    I will try to give as much info on what I plan to do,and hopefully some of the experienced growers on here can answer some of my questions.

    Since I live very close to Dutch Passion's headquarters, and I read very good stuff about their seeds, I am thinking of getting auto durban poison and some auto blackberry kush or maybe auto frisian dew, since I don't have any experience growning. I will germinate in paper towels and then plant them in small pots on the windowsill until the nights are warmer and they outgrow their pot. What kind of soil do you use in the early stages, as I read too many nutrients early on can burn the seedlings?

    Since I live at 50N in Europe, I want to grow my autoflower plants in large pots outdoors in my garden, because we frequently get a lot of rain in April/May and August/september. My reasoning to plant in pots being I can take the pots inside or shelter them when it rains too much. I was thinking of using 35 liter pots or grow bags for this, so the roots can grow. Is this OK?
    Also, I think growing in pots/grow bags will be better for me, as I want to grow the plants in good soil as natural as possible without adding too many extra nutrients. I have grown up on smoking coffeeshop weed all my life, which is mostly overpowered and grown to yield as much as possible in as little time as possible. This is not at all what I am after. Any suggestions on soil types like bio canna bio terra plus or something else which already has natural nutrients and I can add some things like blood meal, bat guano, etc.. to?
    Does adding all these growing and blooming additives I keep reading about, make the weed more potent, but also less "healthy"? As in cows being fed on industrial pellets instead of grazing and natural stuff? I am after good quality, not quantity.

    Regarding placement, I am thinking of placing 2 pots in my garden where they would receive sunlight almost from the early morning al through to sundown. The problem is that they are a little in the sight of my neighbours, which I want to avoid, but ultimately don't think would be a problem. We can legally grow one plant here. Maybe I shall put a couple of tomato plants around them as a cover...
    I am also thinking of putting 2 plants on my roof, where the would receive direct sunlight from noon until sundown, but are against a brick wall which retains heat well. Added bonus is they are more out of sight and potentially not funerable to insects etc... But their smell when blooming will be more noticable.

    So much questions! Thank you to anyone who takes the time out to enlighten me a little.
     
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  2. Demoandy

    Demoandy Auto Warrior

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    I’m a new grower but I’m doing ok on biobizz allmix
     
  3. fryge

    fryge Qualified Live Stoner

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    I think you could better grow in full soil instead of pots.

    I grow in pots myself too, but that's because I only have a balcony.
    in pots, you need to water a lot more, especially on summer sunny days, a pot full of soil can only hold so much water. while in full soil, the roots can cover a larger volume of soil, and so have access to more water, and depending on where you live, they could reach the groundwatertable(I'm guessing you live somewhere similar to me, seeing as you mention weed from the coffeeshop, I live in the netherlands). in full soil is just easier, and you can go away for a few days without worrying about the plants. if I go away for just 2-3 days in a row during summer I already have to ask someone to water my plants, because they're in pots, and otherwise I'll arrive home to plants so severely wilted they'll lose half their leaves. meanwhile some plants I had on guerilla last year survived the whole season without any watering(but those were in a location with a relatively high watertable).

    too much rain is not directly an issue. the problem is in autumn, when the buds are getting fat, and it rains all the time you get budrot. but shielding the plants from rain is not really going to help, since humidity is a big part of the problem. better to get moldresistant strains, and finish before the worst weather sets in(either trough early photo-strains, or with autoflowers you just have to plant early enough that they'll be finished in august, maybe first half of september. with autoflowers I would try to keep it at august, since most autoflowers are not that moldresistant I think, and with autoflowers it's also easily possible to finish in august anyway). and ofcourse check plants regularly, and remove any budrot you see.
    for the soil/roots too much rain will never be an issue, the excess just drains away, especially in full soil.

    personally, I just use soil from the gardening center(specifically, I buy my soil from the 'welkoop'). for seedlings I often use specific seedling/cutting soil (zaai- en stekgrond in dutch), that's soil poorer in nutrients and with better drainage.
    but weedseedlings aren't that fussy, they'll do fine on regular potting soil too. with something like tomatoes or chilis you have to treat the seedlings a lot softer, but weedseedlings don't care that much, they can also handle the sunshine behind a window on the south right from the moment they come aboveground(while I have to put my tomatoseedlings behind an east/west window, or it'll get too much for them)

    for nutrients, I use pellets made from chickenshit. you can buy them at the action for 1 euro per 1 kg, you have to watch the folder a bit during spring to see when it becomes available. I only add nutrients in the latest, largest pots, my final potsize is around 40 litres( washbuckets with some holes cut in the bottom), and I add about 1 handfull per 10 litres of soil. usually that's plenty to last till halfway flower or even completely till the end.
    chickenshit works well since compared to other shit, it's high in nitrogen. similar to guano, which is also birdshit, since birds don't pee, but poop out a shit-pee combination, so all the nitrogen that would usually go in the pee ends up in their shit. chickenshit may not have the fancy hipstercreds that guano has, but it's still great shit, and it's cheap. and it doesn't need to be flown in from some pacific island.

    I also have a bottle of liquid fertilizer to fix a defficiency quickly, since the chickenshitpellets take a while to release all their nitrogen. but I only use that bottle when I see a nitrogendefficiency and need to fix it asap(that bottle is also from the action, it was cheap and already lasts multiple years. no need to buy expensive cannabis-specific nutrients, it's the same nutrients anyway, and there are always numbers for the amounts NPK on the lable)
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  4. G.Leave

    G.Leave Smoke Cannabis Live with Friends on AFN Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I have some stellar information for you friend....you might have seen a couple of my outdoor grows on DPs showcase in the blog section.

    Anyways...first thing is first...across the pond here in cannada I love Dutch Passion stock!! They have done VERY well for me over the years outdoors, and I have grown well over a dozen strains of theirs now. Some of their strains(autos especially) do not cope well with mold in damp environments.

    Frisian Dew - Ive grown the photoperiod of the frisian dew twice and though its a great yielder, the smoke is only good, not great, and flavours and smells are only midgrade. Of all of the DP autos i would avoid the Dew personally. Durban Poison is an excellent choice...though I have only grown one so far, its was a monster of a plant with a tremendous yield and solid mold resistance, great unique smell and taste. I have watched a few UK grows of the durban and it did well in adverse conditions.
    Cant comment on the Blackberry kush, as I keep forgetting to get some to try out!! Okay so you want the best of the best that DP has to offer? Think Fast photoperiod is tremendously potent bud and does very well for me outdoors. Auto night queen , Auto Euforia, Cinderella Jack and Colorado Cookies are all exceptional quality(i grow the auto night queen every time i do an indoor grow). The only problem is I have only grown out a single colorado cookies, cinderella jack outdoors, and have only tried euphoria and night queen indoors, so I can't say about their outdoor performance.

    Rather than explain what I do to create monster sized photoperiod plants i am just going to link you to the monster training guide.
    https://www.autoflower.net/forums/t...-maximizing-outdoor-photoperiod-plants.59210/

    As well as autos, this guide was made for a cooler high humidity climate.
    https://www.autoflower.net/forums/t...r-autos-guide-to-growing-under-the-sun.56402/

    @fryge - Great bunch of points bud!! Repped! I am going to bounce off of a couple of point you made.

    That is such a good point bud!! I can leave my MONSTER photoperiod plants for a week easily without having to water them, because they are planted in the ground and they have huge root bases.

    Yeah i mostly agree with this....if the ambient relative humidity is too high(we have very high midsummer Rh due to close proximity huge bodies of water and surface evaporation). The hotter it gets the more humid it gets. 70% all the time is fairly normal. Some years it rains a ton, some years even in a drought season it is still 70%RH. Mold is a problem in either season. Ironically here when it rains, the temperature often drops quite a bit, and then after a day, the humidity can drop in the air, so here rain shields do work to a degree, by stopping pounding rain from getting into the bud and creating "waterlogged" bud which can cause excess problems. In areas where there is alot of daily dew, rainshields/dewshields can have a positive impact especially if it is not decreasing wind/circulation and if the plants do not receive sun until morning. Morning dew on plant during cool damp weather compounds the ambient relative humidity problem.

    I am not going to touch on the supersoil mixing stuff at all. Its not the way i grow.

    @fryge - What strains do you suggest that are highly mold resistant and top quality?
     
  5. Exotic Flower

    Exotic Flower Auto Warrior

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    @KenBacon -- not much more to add to the good advice above, except --- DO IT!
    Whatever method and ways you try, it's all a learning experience.
    So, give it a try, see what happens, and take it from there!
    All the best!
     
  6. fryge

    fryge Qualified Live Stoner

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    personally I've had good results with hybrids from hell, especially the hashplant2. with the harvest from that hashplant2 I had multiple occassions were I was sharing it and people reacted surprised when I said it was my own grown outdoor, people here associate outdoor with low quality but this tasted like any indoor haze from a coffeeshop.
    but I know some people don't like them since the hfh strains are generally a bit more leafy, and still quiet some variation(but they will all finish on time).
    I've also grown thaipassion(bald monkey seeds), that one did well too(but the potency was a bit less as the hashplant2).

    I've also grown some more danish strains past year on guerilla, but at harvest everything went into one bag, so I have a mixed jar and can't say which bud is which. it includes various hfh strains, thaipassion, and tanska's nepal. generally the buds from that jar are a little less potent and less tasty as from my own cross, but I've had a few buds from the mixed jar that were really tasty. maybe it's the hashplant, since I also had 1 hashplant2 on guerilla past year.

    I've also grown nieuwe dame blanche, a dutch outdoorstrain, bit harder to get since it was created by a hobby breeder(who passed away around 10 years ago), and spread mostly by trading/sharing seeds. I liked the NDB a bit less, since I prefer sativa's and the ndb was a more indica effect(but not too heavy). also 1 of the 2 plants I had lost a lot to budrot, and the weed didn't get me high(later it turned out it was great against headaches, probably a lot of cbd, the guy I got the seeds from had some tested and it tested very high in cbd, but still with moderate-high thc too), but the other one was nice, and great taste.

    for myself I'm now busy creating my own lines, since I've noticed the choice for good outdoorstrains is pretty limited, and varying by year, some sites I bought seeds at just a few years ago already don't exist anymore, or they have little left.

    for strains I don't have personal experience with, you can also look into canadian strains(is going to be interesting what's going to come out of canada after legalisation).
    best known is guerilla gold. I see it used a lot now in outdoorstrains, since it's early and moldresistant, but has decent bag appeal(the danish strains are often more leafy and fluffy). I'm not growing it since it's too much indica, but I see the name guerilla gold often, apparently it's especially good in crosses to bring earliness.

    real gorilla seeds also look interesting. bred at guerilla in the UK, but also focus on bag appeal and quality. but they do use more 'standard' strains, most of their stuff I would find too much indica in effect I think.

    and if you like indica, you can also look at erdpurt. it's a danish strain based on the swiss erdbeer. sold at ace seeeds, I think they got it from esben(the guy behind hybrids from hell), but ace did some extra selection work on it to make it more consistent and get the hermi's out.
    in a similar vein there's also ierdbei, a dutch strain that's also based on erdbeer.

    and this year I'm also growing thyphoon and royal dane, 2 older danish strains, both very early. but a bit lower quality, and leafy/fluffy. I'm going to use the earliness for breeding, and there's some nostalgia, thyphoon is the first strain I ever grew. but back then I just started smoking(and had never gotten high from any other weed as from my own harvest), and never heard of curing, so I'm very curious how it will compare to my memories.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
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  7. KenBacon

    KenBacon Welcome to the CannaZone

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    Oh woow!! I didn't visit the forum for some time, so I have just read all your replies. Thank you @fryge @912GreenSkell @Maria Sanchez and @Demoandy for sharing your wisdom!! It is much appreciated.
    I wish I could mail a bud to you all after my harvest :eyebrows:.

    Anyway, time has come to pass and last week I received my package of Dutch Passion seeds in the mail. After much debating, reading and talking to friends who have grown before, I settled on Think Different and Frisian Dew for my first grown. Reasons being these seem to be good to learn with, and are solid performers outdoors. Summers here can sometimes be wet, so a hardy variety will always do well, was also part of the reasoning.
    Lastly, the previous week I passed by a coffee shop and decided to buy some coffee shop weed again. I couldn't believe how expensive they are, so I decided to get a variety with good yields, so at least I have some after harvest.
    I will, of course, report back after harvesting on the quality.

    I have read on their website that they upgraded the taste, so I guess we will find out if this is good enough...
    Also, the Think different was on sale! 3+3 free, whats not to like?

    I have read your guides religiously and it seems you have the perfect plot of land to grow these giants, and kudos for doing so!! I have, on the other hand, a garden in the city and need to be somewhat careful with my neighbors. Also, it would be very easy to steal my plants if they become too obvious.

    This brings me to my next point, which is the growing in pots. @fryge your suggestion to plant in the ground is something I am considering even up to this point. My only worry is that they will grow to become too big! But I guess this won't be true, as they are genetically limited, so to speak, to be ready for harvest in 10 to 12 weeks?
    Also, the ground in my garden is very solid, like clay. I read in the outdoor guide that @912GreenSkell digs holes and fills them with his soil mix. Is it too late to do that now, if I want to plant them outside in the beginning of May?
    If I do end up planting in pots, I was thinking of getting these fabric smart pots. Are these worth the trouble, or do I just make do with bigger garden centre pots?

    Anyway, what I will do now, with everything I have read and all other information is the following:
    I am germinating 3 seeds I found in some weed from an autoflower my friend gave me. I want to test my method out, and didn't want to jeopardise my good seeds, so I am trying with these. I haven't read up on what this will give. Will the plants also be hermies? I am doing so in small degradable pots that can be planted in a larger pot once the plant becomes too big.
    If they germinate, I am going to grow them indoors behind glass until they are tall enough, than introduce them to the outside by putting them in the garden a couple of hours every day. Than I plan on taking them to an outdoor guerilla spot I have in mind, in a clearing in the forest. If they grow, they grow. In either case, my experience will have grown.

    I have bought a normal soil mix with chicken- and cow shit mixed in already, and I have also bought nutrients for vegetables and fruit, which I want to add a little every 2 weeks. Would this work?
    These are the numbers on the pack (in dutch):
    NPK (Mg) 6-4-13 (3)
    6% stikstof totaal (N), waarvan
    6% organisch gebonden stikstof
    4% fosforzuuranhydride (P2O5) oplosbaar in water en neutraal ammoniumcitraat
    13% kaliumoxide (K2O) oplosbaar in water
    3% magnesiumoxide (MgO) oplosbaar in water
    40% organische stof
    Norg, P2O5 en organische stof afkomstig van haarmeel (hair meal), verenmeel (feather meal), vleesmeel (meat meal) and beendermeel (bone meal)
    Bevat dierlijke bijproducten categorie II
     
  8. fryge

    fryge Qualified Live Stoner

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    for keeping them small, you could also just start later. if you're growing a non-autoflower strain, they are triggered by the amount of dark hours, so if you just start later you'll have a shorter veg period before flower starts. and you can top/lst etc.

    I grow in pots too due to circumstances(balcony), so it certainly works, just a bit more work with watering as full soil, so if full soil is an option I would do that.

    the fertilizer sounds ok, but you maybe need some additional nitrogen. also high in K, so maybe get some nitrogen from another source to add in veg to keep the balance right, but I never put that much time/experimentation in fertilizers, so maybe someone with more experience in what the right ratios could say more about it. (I'm planning to experiment a bit more this year, bought some dolomite lime since I spotted something that looked like magnesiumdefficiency in one plant last year. and potting soil probably doesn't have as much calcium and magnesium as a regular fieldsoil with clay and sand) and a friend is going to harvest seaweed which we're going to try out as fertilizer on guerilla)

    I just use chickenshit since it was recommended by an older grower on a dutch weedforum(the breeder of nieuwe dame blanche, he's not around anymore though, but he had some good advice). now some years later as I learn a bit more about nutrients and fertilizers from school, I realise how right he was.
    and also, the action sells chickenshit pellets, around 1 euro for 1 kg if I remember right(you have to check the fineprint to see it's chickenshit). 1 handfull per 10 litres soil for the final pot(I use 40 litre washbuckets from the action, poke a few holes in the bottom and you've got a nice pot), and that lasts them till at least beginning of flower, usually the entire grow till harvest.

    adding a little every 2 weeks might not work that well. for one, if you add something like a handfull every 2 weeks, it's going to be overkill.
    and two, it's an organic fertilizer, and all of that nitrogen is organic. so no readily available amonium or nitrate, but built into organic compounds('organisch gebonden'), which will take some time for bacteria/fungi etc to digest and make the nitrogen available to the plant.

    fertilizers like that(same with chickenshit pellets, although chickenshit pellets are relatively rich in nitrogen and also easily released, so it's quiet hot) work best if you mix them trough the soil before planting. you can topdress some halfway the season, but it's not going to take effect immediatly, so not usefull to immediatly fix defficiencies as you see them. and it keeps on releasing nitrogen(and other nutrients) even into the next year. so if you give too much, you can't just let it flush away and start over next year.

    for a comparison, some of the text from my box of chickenshit:
    gewaarborgde samenstelling
    gedroogde kippenmest, NPK 4-3-2,5
    4% N, waarvan 3,6% organisch, afkomstig uit kippenmest (I think this means that the leftover 0,4% is in a readily available form, ammonium and/or nitrate, but still comes from the chickenshit)
    3% P2O5
    2,5%K2O
    65% organische stof afkomstig uit kippenmest
    90% droge stof
    dit product bevat mest(categorie 2)

    also, a thing to consider with your product, since it contains meatmeal and bonemeal, it may atract some animals. never used it so no idea if it's an issue, but there's a chance i you use it on guerilla maybe some animals will dig around in the soil since it smell nice(or it could be beneficial, scaring deer away)
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  9. KenBacon

    KenBacon Welcome to the CannaZone

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    Thanks @fryge, for your extensive explanation on the fertilizers. Very helpful.

    OK, so I'm going to get a box of chickenshit at the action. Do you have a link to the product page of this chickenshit? I can only find 2 fertilizers on their website, one is the Greenboots Roses and climbing plants and one is Greenboots Hortensia and Rhododendron fertilizer. Is it one of these 2, @fryge ?
    I want to keep the fertilizer as natural as possible, because in the end I'm going to be the one consuming it.
    And what washbuckets, which ones are that?

    I have also bought good quality universal potting soil which is pre-fertilized for 1 month, the pack says. So maybe I will add 1 handful of chickenshit per 20 liters of soil before I plant, so it can start releasing the nutrients. Will this not make the soil too rich? Here is whats on the pack of soil:
    Teeltsubstraat
    Potgrond bevattende micronutriënten op basis van turfstrooisel (blonde turf), tuinturf, meststoffen op basis van calcium en/of magnesium, meststoffen
    Droge stof 20%
    Organische stof 10%
    pH-zone (water) 4,5 - 7,0
    Electrische geleidbaarheid (EC) 75 mS/m
    Meststoffen NPK 14-16-18 met sporenelementen 1,4 kg/m³

    Do you have experience with these nutrients like Dutchpro, Biobizz, etc... Is this a must? I read you only have a bottle handy when you spot a deficiency in your plants?

    Thanks again for taking the time to help me!!
     
  10. fryge

    fryge Qualified Live Stoner

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    no, it's not one of those currently on the action site. (the box says in big letres ' vegetables and herbs', in multiple languages, then in smaller letres underneath ' dried manure'. with a kind of mark/stamp in yellow saying '100% organic'. they also have the same stuff but for flowers/shrubs on the same shelf, however if you check the lable, it's exactly the same chickenshit, only the box is different)
    could be they don't have it at the moment, lots of those gardeningthings sold at action are seasonal products. usually they come available around this time of the year.
    I'm planning on going to the action today or tomorrow, since I spotted those mini greenhouses(for starting seedlings/cuttings) in the folder, will report if they have the chickenshit or not.
    if not, I expect they'll have it within a few weeks, since they already have the mini-greenhouses.

    I'm not really sure how long the prefertilized soil will last. the advice of dame blanche was to ignore it, he said those nutrients quickly flush away/are used up, and the soil-producers just add it so they can charge way more for the soil, while it costs them very little to add some fertilizer. (btw, you can still find his posts at wietforum.nl, that forum is pretty dead now but I think dame blanche's posts are worth a read).

    I don't have any experience with the fertilizers you list. the only things I've used so far are chickenshit, and that bottle of liquid fertilizer. that bottle of liquid fertilizer is also from the action, bought one bottle once and it's still not empty. it's NPK 7-4-6. I only use it when I spot a (nitrogen) defficiency, since it's synthetic/non-organic fertilizer it works much quicker as organic fertilizers, so it's more usefull to quickly fix a defficiency. I also use a bit on some small plants I have behind the window currently to produce seeds, since I want to keep them in a small pot to save space.

    I have also used homemade fertilizer from stinging nettles, but that was years ago when I lived with my parents. making that stuff really stinks, so it wouldn't be nice to my neighbours to make it, but my parents have a big backyard so there I could easily make it without bothering anyone.

    btw, IMO keeping it natural doesn't really matter for your health.
    in the end, it's the exact same molecules that the plant consumes, but with organic you're adding an extra step with the soillife that has to convert it to the same chemicals that are in synthetic fertilizer, so the plant can take it up.
    however, I find organic just more convenient. I can mix it into the soil once then don't worry about nutrients, no testing pH, just watering.
    and it's more sustainable for the environment(we're going to be screwed with our current agriculture in 50-100 years. synthetic nitrogen(N) fertilizer is made from nitrogen in the air, but that requires a lot of energy, currently they use oil to make it. we're already at peak oil, so if oil prices rise, nitrogenfertilizer prices will too. phospor(P) will probably become a problem even sooner, in most of the world's soils P is limiting(not in NL btw, we've been fertilizing for a while so our soils are full of P, and P binds in the soil instead of flushing out each year like N). P fertilizer is made from rock phosphate, which is a finite resource. most is mined in morocco, china and the US. it's certain it will run out in a few decades, but there are different estimations for when exactly, but most estimations are somewhere around 40-80 years. and that's not even considering all the issues with pesticides, which is very similar to the antibiotics-problem, current aproach is to just invent a new pesticide when the insects/weeds become resistent. and then they can sell the new pesticide for extra high prices, since it's new. even better for their wallets if they can combine it with a GM-crop that's immune for the herbicide, so that now they can also charge more for a new GM-cultivar to go with the new herbicide. but when we run out of new herbicides/pesticides to invent, we'll be screwed. IMO better to start thinking of other ways to deal with those problems, more long-term sustainable methods)

    so while I do prefer organic, I have no issues using a little synthetic fertilizer when it's needed to fix a defficiency.

    oh, btw, forgot about the washbuckets.
    I use 2 different ones(round ones and square ones, the round ones arte a bit deeper, the square ones fit nicely along the fence of my balcony, so my beans and balckberry can climb the fence) doesn't really matter which ones you get, just get a size/shape that's convenient, and make sure to cut plenty of drainage holes in the bottom. the softer ones(like the round ones I'm using) may be more convenient, since the material doesn't crack/break as easily when you shove a knife into it.
    I also use regular buckets(12 litres) as pots.
    it's just whatever container I find that's cheap that I can make into a pot, since I find that actual pots in larger sizes are very expensive for what they are. while other random plastic containers of the same size are much cheaper, only thing they lack is drainage holes in the bottom, but for that a knife and 5-10 minutes of work is the solution.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
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