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Calling out bad Autoflower genetics/actors

terp182

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Let me start by acknowledging that I realize this could turn into a shitshow, so I have no problem having this thread closed if needed, but I can't think of a better place to post this very serious question/issue. Perhaps it's been raised before. It's certainly not new news.

So a few days ago, as Darkhorse Genetics and Night Owl spin up their Dark Owl collabs, DHG made a post about "fake autoflower breeders" on IG, which was quickly moderated into nothingness, within an hour. In that post, he said there are essentially two types of autoflower breeder/seller right now: 1. The banks using a white label or shortcut seedstock and calling it whatever... Auto Gelato, Auto Runtz, Auto Bruce Banner #3 (his point of contention, obviously), etc. and 2. Small breeders showing their work and making craft-quantity runs of true auto genetics.

I'd recently purchased a couple seed packs I was less than 100% sure on, specifically FastBuds' Auto Chemdawg (red flag in the spelling, of course) and Barney's Runtz. I asked DHG/Jason in a DM if he thought I got took, to which he replied "Yeah - don't get too upset about it but yeah".

So, here's my question: what are the collective thoughts here on less-than-100%-verified auto genetics? I know small breeders like Mephisto, Night Owl, Mando, Brother Mendel Selections, etc show or describe their breeding efforts to F4 for fems, but what about the others? Is it time to start calling out breeders (and by extension seed banks) selling fake or subpar autos, or do we continue to let new growers get ripped off and let autoflowers' reputation continue to struggle? To be honest, I'm pretty salty to have bought possibly not-real auto genetics from a very lauded seed bank, who also sells quality auto genetics.

I for one intend to at some point show my work and run this Auto Chemdawg right next to a CDLC or ideally Chemdogging, to show the phenotypical differences between those two autos, at least. I'd love to hear others' thoughts on this, though. As legalization spreads and noobs roll in here and other spaces just like we did, this problem will continue to grow and the scammers will continue to profit. Just my thoughts this morning.

Anyone care to disagree? Am I missing something obvious here?
 

DCLXVI

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Nosy bug aren't you?
Well I'm new to the whole thing and I don't know enough of the backstory to a lot of the names/lines etc. However, I do think it's pretty unethical of guys to grow, reverse, and cross someone else's work, and then try to pass it off as their own.

That said, I'll stick to the forum recommendations and respected breeders. Definitely a lot of knowledge here.
 

DCLXVI

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Nosy bug aren't you?
Maybe I should clarify as I realize it is nigh impossible to start from scratch. I do think there is a big difference in creating and searching out over several generations and a simple relabeled cross. Yeah?

There are some talented guys on here making their own seeds and lines. I hope it didn't come off as disparaging to them.
 

Mañ'O'Green

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I personally have grown many many FastBud Strains. I grow the Green crack auto at least once a year. It is very similar to the HSO Green Crack Photoperiod plants I have grown except for size and speed. All of FastBud's gear has been solid for me. So my first question would be did you really get FastBuds? There are many pollen chuckers and counterfeiters out there.

This is not even close to a new topic as it has been hashed over many many times here. The conclusion is "Caveat Emptor" .
 

Blu_tri

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MBS mind body & soul
Education. I can say a million things about this, but it all boils down to educating yourself
An auto of any photo strain will always be a cross.
However the photo genetics can be legit in the cross. It could have been made with a modern cross… I mean you never know. So I recommend proceeding with caution as you take everything with a grain of salt. Especially when a seller of flaunting someone else’s genetics.
If nothing else, ask to see a seed pack, or a receipt for the clone.
Just be careful and spend your hard earned $$$ wisely. It not just cash you are spending, think about the time and resources that also have to be put into a grow.
Best of luck to you.
I too have grown fastbuds strains and im pleased with them.
 

CannabisMingus

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Hey @terp182 - great thread. Very interesting question.

I guess I'm confused as to what a "fake auto" is. One that has a high risk of turning out photo, hermie, etc? Or one that was just Cool Cultivar of the Month x some auto ? Probably showing my ignorance here.

I for one intend to at some point show my work and run this Auto Chemdawg right next to a CDLC or ideally Chemdogging, to show the phenotypical differences between those two autos, at least.
This would seem to be where the answer lies.
:pass:
 

Ace12

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The problem with chemdog is the fact that there's 5 different chems from the original 12 bag seed. The short version goes like this. 4 seeds were popped in 91 resulting in the 91 and chem sis. The 91 is considered by most breeders to be the best or most potent. Then a few years later joebrand, the guy who sold the chemdog to chemdog, met back up with each other and that resulted with chem d and chem #4. Chem number 4 went around for years being confused with the 91 or passed off as the 91. From what I hear chem d and 91 are the best phenos of the bunch. There was a couple males of the 8 seeds and a couple junk phenos.

This leads me to the point of which chem was worked into an auto and was it a verified cut? The dawg part comes from jjnyc and his work making stardawg and playing with chem lines.

I really wanted to try the chemdawg from fastbuds and the stardawg. Fastbuds does have a good reputation as far as I'm concerned but I guess it depends. I think the chemdawg auto you have will be fire. I have some chem d autos that are freebies from ethos but I'm assuming will be made into a line. I'd like to get my hands on mephisto chemdogging but seems unlikely until its re released.

Also I do agree that lines should be worked and not just f1 crosses being put to market. We had this discussion briefly in a thread the other day on here. F1s are just not putting in any work imo. Thats pollen chucking not breeding. You have to actively make selections down the filial generations.
 

BII

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There's been no mention of likely the longest-established and major auto seed breeders/sources, such as Dutch Passion, Sweet, Dinafem, Royal Queen, etc. These companies presumably have relatively sophisticated in-house breeding programs, now including using chemical analysis, cloning (at cellular, not plant level), genetic sequencing/markers, etc.; in-house R&D and pharmaceutical grade quality control; test plots/farms; etc., staffed by relevant professionals and by now likely have unmatched seed stock/collections, strain sequencing data and breeding knowledge.

What are views of seeds from such sources, including in comparison with the smaller newer entrants cited? Should we be comparably wary of seeds from these sources? Are these companies that put out mostly photos ever 'bad' actors or bad auto seed sources?
 
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