Experienced breeders please take a peek at this

Discussion in 'Autoflower Breeding: How To & Independent Projects' started by Mazar, Sep 4, 2019.

  1. Mazar

    Mazar Welcome to the CannaZone

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    I am going to start a project and don't want to use feminized seed for it. The project is to finally have my best mis go auto.

    I have some auto kush that I only need the auto gene from. I have a star mis that ticks the right boxes for me, it was bred from real seed cos mis. The dad was an epic mis dad that I saved pollen from and my strain that I want to go auto is one that my wife named Dadster so I'll continue to use that here to avoid confusion.

    My plan and what I'm hoping an experienced breeder can just quickly look over and tell me if the plan is sound is this:

    1)Breed the auto to the saved mis dad pollen.
    2)Next generation semi auto gets bred together.
    3)3rd gen is under 24 hour light and those that go auto and a male is selected.
    4)4th gen is between the male that auto'd and Dadster.
    5)5th gen is open pollinated again to get the auto male again.
    6)6th gen male auto back to Dadster.
    7) repeat step 5 and 6 4 times with each next generation male being bred back to the Dadster clone to fix it to the line while only keeping the auto gene while hopefully having all other traits (mostly) being from the clone.
    8) breed the resulting progeny to itself 4 more times to fix the auto gene to the now hopefully 90+% Dadster line resulting in something almost indistinguishable from the clone other than being an auto flower now.

    Am I adding extra unnecessary steps? Should I do anything differently or does it look like the most efficient way to get Dadster full auto?

    I'll add the project to this thread as a journal once I get the green light from the community.

    Thank you for your time and experience.
     
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  2. Arthur

    Arthur Smoke Cannabis Live with Friends on AFN Gladiator level 1

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    My understanding of bringing in photo Gene's, is that at F1 your looking for the non-auto. The most photo Male female bred to f2, then the autos begin being selected.

    Am sure more educated voices will chime in. Thus far it's just reading for me.
     
  3. Prophetiko

    Prophetiko Making Medicine Staff Member Global Moderator

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    What you have listed here is about 10yrs worth of work.. Depending on how many seeds you are growing out at once.. There is no need to breed/cross the semi autos together, unless of course, you want to make semi autos.. If you are just trying to make an auto from a photo period.. You have to cross the photo with the auto.. Grow out a buch of those seeds to find the ones with the true auto gene (should be around 15-25% of the seeds). Once you find the auto plants, you breed them together to have full auto at f3. Then you can start breeding for specific traits at f4 and beyond. This will take a long time as well, especially considering that only about 25% of the photo x auto seeds will have the auto gene. You will have to grow out hundreds of seeds to get a nice selection of autos to choose from.
     
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  4. SamsungStrips

    SamsungStrips Auto Warrior

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    It seems like you're forgetting to breed for female traits as well as auto Gene. The gene alone is not worth anything if the buds aren't desirable
     
  5. William

    William Auto Warrior

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    I believe the f1 will have 50% photo, 50% auto then they segregate in f2 as photoperiods and then f3 25% of the offspring show auto.
     
  6. Prophetiko

    Prophetiko Making Medicine Staff Member Global Moderator

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    The f1's will not be 50% auto.. A simole punnet square can show that. The auto trait is also recessive. You might get a low percentage of autos in the f1's if you're lucky.
     
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  7. Mazar

    Mazar Welcome to the CannaZone

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    Thanks for all the replies, I was estimating it to be about a 5-10 year project. The reason I had in my mind for the repeated bx's was because at each generational change I want to breed it back to the clone. I'll only be selecting males at each step while tossing the rest and at each consecutive cross it then goes back to the original cut so every future generation is a little closer to the original clone while also getting a little more automatic.

    Doing the math on this is roughly 4 crosses to the auto with each cross using more and more of the clone DNA. After above 90% it's back to the latest male that auto'd, crossing back to the clone and then stabilizing the auto.

    I'll keep the original going the entire time. The feel of this high is amazing, sex with this strain is.. Well it's corny to say it but it's transcendental. It's all around just perfect to me and anytime I try another strain I just find myself feeling unsatisfied and wanting to get some more of the Dadster.

    I'm not trying to make something new I'm trying to get this exact copy to go auto. Or as close as possible. Ideally it'd inherit nothing but the auto gene and be inbred to the point of being nearly indistinguishable from the original clone.

    I was also thinking about doing solo or 1 liter pots to keep everything small to get the numbers in, I understand the punnet square from reading as much as I can but I've not done this before. I'll be smoking the mom only each time and only running the plants long enough to make seed.

    Each cross back to the original clone is to force out unwanted genes from the doner auto so I can reduce reach cycle to as little time as possible. I'll be throwing most everything out or making tincture, I'm not concerned about wasted material, I have the photo clone to smoke for that.

    Clear as mud now? Hehe thanks for reading this wall of text.
     
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  8. CannaDaTaBiz

    CannaDaTaBiz Auto Warrior

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    This

    F1 between auto and photo will be photo, except maybe, just maybe i dunnosometimes you might get an auto in f1?

    With f1 you choose other traits than auto you want for the plants to get closest to in the future.

    These F2 offsprings will have 12.5 or 25% auto(i dont remember, long time since i studied this) and will vary greatly in other features as well. This is when you grow tons of those seeds and hope to find autoflower male and female that have other desirable characteristics you look for as well.

    F3 made from f2 autoflower male and female will have around 50% autoflower. Repeat selecting autoflowers with other desirable traits to stabilize AF and other traits.

    F4 will have around 75% auto, select desirable traits. Other desirable traits you select earlier generations of will start to stabilize like af. But you need to select for them also!

    F5 87.5% AF etc. You could now start to cross back with you photo plant you started with. But its better to stabilize AF for one or few generations before crossing back to photo.

    Now after you cross back your autoflowering hybrid to your non photo you will get another batch of seeds that wont af. Now you do the whole process of selecting new generations again with your ”(af x photo that has strong af genes) x photo” seeds until you you stabilize AF again.

    You can get very close to your non af parent just by selecting the perfect parents from AF x photo hybrid, but crossing it back to the original photo will make it more pure that non af, but with af genes.
     
  9. Archaic

    Archaic Flushing is a myth!

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    A very useful shortcut is to select an auto that is as much like the photo you are trying to recreate as possible.

    You generally won't see any F1s that autoflower. So breed your F1s together purely based on desired traits.

    Autoflowering will appear in about 25% of the F2s.

    Each BX will concentrate traits as follows
    50% 75% 87.5% 93.75% ~97% at a certain point you reach diminishing returns locking down a pheno.

    The one nice thing about using clones is that you can have a female perpetually ready to breed and males make pollen much faster than females make seeds.

    It's a long drawn out process but growers like Mephisto can usually make an AF version of a photo in about 3 years.

    Good luck!
     

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