Is soil really too hot for autos?

Discussion in 'Autoflower Infirmary for Sick Plants' started by Stroke, Jan 24, 2019.

  1. Stroke

    Stroke Auto Warrior

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    It has taken a long time for me to arrive at this conclusion. I believe that my favorite soil, Roots organic original, is the reason why my autos always dwarf and show weird deficiencies/burns.

    Every time I run new autos, no matter the strain, I end up with a squatted plant that has a low yield. My veg growth starts out fine but somewhere around week 4, I start to get yellowing leaves that start at the bottom and work their way up.

    I've tried to combat this by feeding which seems to fight the "deficiency" but creates burnt tips and nitrogen toxicity. I've also tried to flush when I see yellowing and not feed nutes but the yellowing gets worse.

    A little about my grow history: I have been trying to perfect my technique by dialing in my fundementals. I have a humidifier with a built in humidistat that is fairly accurate and keeps my rh in the correct zones, rotating fan, digital and old school mercury thermometers. Second humidistat on the digital thermometer. I have a central air type heat and ac system that keeps my temps at 79 degrees. I ph my water to 6.3. In the past I ran Fox farm nutes Grow Big, Tiger bloom, and big bloom. Recently, I have only been using mega crop, recharge and a tiny bit of organic blackstrap molasses for cal mag.

    Long story short, I have tried my best to minimize fluctuations in my grow area and nothing seems to help.

    I tried ffof in the beginning when I use to run photo period strains but every time I ran that soil, I would end up with gnats. I switched to Roots and haven't had a bug problem since.

    While growing photos, I didn't have my fundimentals in tact, but I remember my old plants never showed the deficiencies that I get with autos.

    I tried an experiment my last grow. I grew a killer kush f1 fast version photo next to two autos to see if I'm crazy and I believe my results prove my suspicions. As always, my autos dwarfed and showed deficiencies but the killer Kush auto thrived. In 93 days, I got about 86 grams dry off of the killer kush photo but only got about 15 grams off of my cheese auto and 18 grams off of my og gorilla auto.

    I grew these three plants under two 55w auto cobs and a 450 viparspectra that pulls about 230w at the wall.

    I would love for some thoughts on this. Is Roots too hot for autos?

    If so, is there an alternative for someone like me who loves the convenience of autos but doesn't want a hydro/soiless system. I really dont like the idea of watering daily and going through a shit ton of nutes.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
  2. DTOM420

    DTOM420 Smoke Cannabis Live with Friends on AFN

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    I don’t have the answer you’re looking for but I can sure relate and empathize. I have had struggles with autos as well; particularly starting in early flower. I’ve also had a number of dwarfed autos; but I chalk most of the stunting up to me trying to top and LST my autos. I doubt the Roots soil is too hot for autos. If stunting was nutrient related I’d say your feeding caused it and not the soil. If you suspected that the soil was “hot” then why would you feed a plant in it with more nutes? Especially a bottled, salt based nute? I’m running a DP Auto Ultimate in Roots soil right now. It’s my first time using the RO soil but that plant is doing better than the one I tried in FF soil that stunted right at about week 4.

    I do start my seeds in a 16oz solo cup sized core of nutrient-free soil that I nestle into the top of my soil in a 5 gallon fabric pot. This lets them start without any nutrients (besides some root stimulators and myco) and SEEK out the rich soil on its own time frame. It seems to be working great.

    Maybe you’ve gotten unlucky with your chemotype (strain) choice? Maybe something besides a fast finishing chemotype would be better? You might look for a really stable strain from a top tier breeder and look for one that says it’s easy to grow or that says it’s not a finicky plant.

    Hope you get it worked out. Can’t give up! Have you looked at autobeast’s system using BioBizz and sone bottled nutes? He gives his regimen out, down to the little details from start to finish and almost always has AMAZING results. Might think about it.

    If you don’t like watering daily (I don’t either!) take a look at Blumats (I just started using them) or AutoPots or even SIP’s buckets. Easy ways to not have to water all the time and maintain perfect moisture.

    HTH
     
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  3. NoviceProfessor

    NoviceProfessor Welcome to the CannaZone

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    I've never had a problem with dwarfing my autos (knocks on wood).
    I somehow doubt the Roots soil is the problem.

    FWIW I've used mostly Happy Frog Soil or generic coco coir as my mediums, and feed with organic tea.

    Oh, and speaking of roots organics, I use their guano in my tea. I like it a lot. And I have probably gone way overboard with it before without any significant burning.
     
  4. ChroToker

    ChroToker DWC Gardener

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    Sounds like the autopot system might work for you, I always see people pulling good yields with these!
     
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  5. Stroke

    Stroke Auto Warrior

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    Thanks for your feedback. I actually ordered Biobizz light last night which is supposed to have less amenments but is still considered soil and is not ment for hydro. I have nothing to lose at this point.
     
  6. Stroke

    Stroke Auto Warrior

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    This is my current squated OG gorilla that is almost finished. Looks like good bud but it's tiny. Big Smo ran this strain from the same breeder under auto cobs and got awesome yields. He was the inspiration for me to get cobs and run these seeds. The correct medium is the only thing that I think could be hindering my yields.
     

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  7. LittleMT

    LittleMT Smoke Cannabis Live with Friends on AFN

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    Roots Organic, Fox Farm soils, all need the same thing. Beneficial microbes and Bacteria, Streptomyces, and the list goes on. In soil grows one feeds the soil, and not really the plant though you can supplement feeds with chemical nutrients. A healthy soil will be diverse in microbes, and those microbes must be feed and kept happy. They will inturn care for the plant through a symbiotic relationship, just exactly what occurs in nature. What you are experiencing is your nutrients that are in the soil ran out of steam, that and as the plant matures and goes through hormone changes its requirements also change. When you grow in a pot with soil think of it as a small eco system diverse with life and your plant happens to be there, there are beneficial microbes in the soil (which can be inoculated) which protect your plant from pathogens and virsus's which IMO are more common then people think. When you add soil, fill the pot under 2/3rds full...Why? So you can add topsoil at say day 20 and again at day 40 in anticipation of the soil losing its steam, and also add nutes such as CalMag especially if under LED lights, AUTO's love it and will show deficiencies if they don't get what they want.

    When a soil is too hot it will fry a seedling, which I have done, weird growth, crispy leaves and they check out, we lost some CBD strains trying to come up with a soil that would last with just water.

    There are many great microbe products, we tend to favor the Blacksmith Bio Science line, but a good overall product that many should consider using is all growers Recharge.
    Soil might play some role in a 'dwarfed' auto however this is probably due to over feeding..... When you feed in a soil it is slower reacting then hydro, so don't expect to see results right away.

    Which brings me to BioBizz light mix...…. I am currently conducting a test grow with this medium and going to rely on the new formula of Megacrop. I have stuck with Fox Farm Ocean Forrest and Happy Frog because of it SIMPLY working, in my small grows, in my large grows, and I get it rather inexspensive. With that said I can be stubborn as I have been doing this for 4 decades and really wanted to simplify what we do. I tried KIND soil and this fried 2 plants (Mephisto's) once the roots hit the soil. That soil needs to be cut with coco and maybe Happy Frog and retested but I haven't gone there yet. BioBizz is a weaker mix or less hot or however you choose to phrase it, it will need nutrients sooner, which MegaCrop according to the claims of the Manufacture should be enough, we shall see, however in the 1st few weeks I will be focusing on building a microbe population with this mix, hopefully the results I get will be satisfactory enough for us to consider using it in our medical grows. I love learning, and never think I know it all, sometimes Iearn from the newest of newbies, because they don't have stubborn old habits like I might.
     
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  8. LittleMT

    LittleMT Smoke Cannabis Live with Friends on AFN

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    One thing I didn't mention is that in soil the size of the pot will directly affect the size/yield of the plant. When I purposely try and grow small I always use a small pot. If you want a large autoflower, look for strains that support that and plant in atleast a 5 gallon if not a 7 or 10. In soil grows we rely on the root system branching out more then ever and the more space, the more grace......
     
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  9. MassMom

    MassMom Just watchin my daughter enjoy my harvest!

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    I dont....I grow to help others :-)
    Hope you don't mind if I tag along, your grow is VERY basic, simplistic in its nature, and oh so interesting!!

    :pop:
     
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  10. shumway

    shumway Smoke Cannabis Live with Friends on AFN Gladiator Level 2

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    Try cutting back on the N a bit and boosting the P-K at the 4 to 5 week mark,Hitting that bloom phase so gonna use that up more and can cause some of the same symptoms (yellowing) as a N def :thumbsup:
     
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