Need some help with super soil recipe for autos

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Wallflower82

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I was hoping to make a super soil out of:

Roots organic soil for base mix, (10 gal of soil is 1 bag)
EWC (about 5-7 pounds)
Fish bone meal (1 cup)
Kelp meal (1 cup)
Alfalfa meal (1 cup)
Oyster shells ??
Humid acid granular ??
Greensand (1 cup)
Dolomite lime (1 cup
Diatomaceous earth (1 cup)
+25 percent perlite


Not looking to mix more than 10-20 gallons at a time so, it’s a bit scaled down.

Anything missing that would make a huge difference? This is based off one of the simple recipes I saw on the forum .. plus some ingredients I had floating around, I’m just not sure this is enough for a water only super soil, and I’m not sure on the ratios (1 cup is a guess). I don’t have rock phosphate on there, it’s not renewable is there something else I can use instead for phosphorus (assuming it was for that). Do I even need it with what else is there?

I’ll be watering with molasses every few waterings throughout and using growers recharge. I run LED and was hoping to prepare ahead of time for the inevitable calmag def I always see.

Whatever super soil mix comes from this, if I’m using it on an auto and not a photo.. should I mix the super soil with roots organic 50/50 throughout the entire pot or should it be ALL super soil, or just the bottom or? I know autos need nutrients sooner so, perhaps they don’t benefit as much from layers ? they need access to certain nutrients sooner, right?
 
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Wallflower82

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Hmm. Well I don’t think I posted this in the wrong place. What more is there to say, I need some serious advice here before I blow whatever extra $ I have this month on some of these organics.. just trying to keep it to basics but, like not that basic because I really am trying to make it water only. I’ve mixed super soil before but it never ended up not needing anything, nor was it for autos... so if anyone can lend their wisdom or refer me to a better place to ask this question, I appreciate it :pass:
 

Roasty McToasty

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Looks like a good start, I'd also put in crustacean meal, neem cake meal, insect frass, bio char (precharged with fish hydrosolate), gypsum, and something for mineralization, like basalt or rock dust, and ground up malted barley will add a ton of enzymes to the mix.
1/4 to 1 cup per cubic foot (approx. 7.5G) is a good amount for most additives. Just look at recommended rates and adjust.
Now you will want this mix to "cook" for about a month before using, as it will need time to become available to the plants.
You don't want too much phosphorus in there or it will mess up the balance of things and lock out cal and mag. It also will prevent mycorhizal growth with too much P. There should be plenty in the amendments.
Now if your mix doesn't get you to the finish line, you can top dress some compost and or castings to give a boost, but I doubt you'd need to for a 1 plant run. I'd also toss in some worms into the pot, they are the best soil gardeners on the planet.
 

Roasty McToasty

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Also you can reuse this mix over and over by simply leaving room in the pot to top dress. Most will put down a thin layer of leaf mold, then cover that with compost and or castings. This creates a natural nutrient cycling, and saves us a ton of $$$$.
You can fill the pots 100% with the mix and make a little pocket of seed starter on top to get the seed started in a less nutrient dense medium.
 
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Roasty McToasty

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For a simple lazy approach, which I like, I would try this soil. About 70 bucks including shipping for 1.5 cubic feet. But man it's got everything the plant needs, already cooked and ready to go. I'm going to get a bag and try it out. The owner is pretty bad ass, and knows his shit. Has a great podcast with lots of experts in growing.

Just take a look at what's in this mix.
https://www.kisorganics.com/collections/organic-soil-for-sale-bulk-potting-soil-mix/products/kis-organics-biochar-soil-mix
 

Wallflower82

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Yesss omg thank you @Roasty McToasty , I just saw this I’m out the door for work but when I get home I’m ordering the last of the amendments I need, thanks so much for explaining the phosphorus. Do you have a neem cake brand you prefer? Not many organics store carry it, I’ve found neem meal but that’s different no?
 
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Roasty McToasty

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I bought these off Amazon, but if you want the best, order from KiS organics or buildasoil. Although these have served me well.


Neemtree Organics Neem Gold ( 4-1-2 ) Organic, Vegan Neem Seed Meal Fertilizer (5lb) Amazon product
Neemtree Organics Neem Ninja - 5lbs [31105] Amazon product
 
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DTOM420

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I’m in the (LONG-ass) process of trying to come up with a recipe that mimics KIS Organics water-only soil, like @Roasty McToasty linked to. I can tell you....it’s a pain in the arse and NOT a cheap prospect. It’s not just a list of ingredients that’s important. The REALLY important thing is the ratios and the specific amounts that you use! To get it right, without a very specific and detailed recipe, you’ll need a lot of luck OR you’ll need to send off each trial batch for testing and then figure out how much to add or subtract in order to get a soil that is well balanced (no excesses that will cause lockouts of other nutrients) and has sufficient amounts of all 14 key nutrients. Not to mention proper soil pH. I didn’t realize it would be so complicated when I first started buying ingredients in bulk - all the items you listed plus what others have listed and then some!

Had I been smart, I’d have gone with KIS Organic’s or one of BuildASoil’s kits. Especially if I was doing small batches like you mentioned. I’ll post a couple links below but they have nutrient packs and mineral packs that basically allow you to create their premium soils at home without having to spend 2X the amount to have their bagged soil shipped to you. You just decide whether you want a peat or coco or blend type soil and buy their kit. Then, you pick up the peat (my favorite) and/or coco locally (to you) along with local compost, aeration material and earthworm castings. Mix it all together and you have a proper soil to take you ALL the way through an organic grow cycle - balanced, mineralized, nutrient rich and microbially active soil! Besides, unless you purchase large quantities of amendments, you’ll end up spending more on them than buying one of Tad or Jeremy’s products anyway. So, why not take advantage of all their hard work and research and simplify your soil building?

Unfortunately, I now have a huge stockpile of amendments so I have to lean into my project. Besides, I’m building soil for a bunch of 200 gallon pots. But for you, my friend, I’d HIGHLY suggest you take a look at this option before you go mixing up a soil that may not meet your expectations despite all the variety of inputs you included.

Hope this helps!

https://www.kisorganics.com/collections/soil-amendments/products/kis-organics-nutrient-pack

https://buildasoil.com/products/mineral-mix-kit?variant=8779501895797

https://buildasoil.com/products/buildasoil-modern-mix-v2-0-complete-soil-building-kit?variant=8754888474741

https://buildasoil.com/products/l-o-s-v3-0-nutrient-mix-kit?variant=335502264

If you’re determined to create your own mix, I strongly urge you to read Steve Solomon’s “The Intelligent Gardener” before you do any mixing. He’ll explain how to balance your soil and do your own soil analysis from a (cheap) Logan Labs soil test (Mehlich 3) and he gives you easy worksheets to calculate what you need to add. Or, get a soil analyst like Aaron Crozier (www.PlantBrix.com & www.GrowRU.com) to analyze a Logan Lab test result and give you recommendations. He charges like $40 and you’ll get a spot-on instruction from a very reputable cannabis soil expert.

FWIW - Be very careful with Compost and all things with Potassium (K) in it. Excess K can wreak havoc in your soil; causing lockout issues. It’s very easy to mix up soil with excess K! Ask me how I know. Lol! Any compost with composted manures in it will be potassium-rich, if I’m not mistaken. Excess K will lock out Calcium, Magnesium, Manganese (much more important than most people understand), Iron and Zinc. Considering @Roasty McToasty comment about excess P along side the problems with Excess K, it’s easy to see why creating a soil mix out of thin air, no matter how high quality the input or how varied your ingredient list is, can be so problematic. It’s a very interesting and educating journey I’m on but it’s a HUGE pill to swallow. Again, if I had it to do over, I’d use a kit like one of those I listed.
 
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Roasty McToasty

Shepherd of Fire
Aug 19, 2016
2,181
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20
46
Currently Smoking
White Chem, CDLC, White Crack, Ghost Toof
I’m in the (LONG-ass) process of trying to come up with a recipe that mimics KIS Organics water-only soil, like @Roasty McToasty linked to. I can tell you....it’s a pain in the arse and NOT a cheap prospect. It’s not just a list of ingredients that’s important. The REALLY important thing is the ratios and the specific amounts that you use! To get it right, without a very specific and detailed recipe, you’ll need a lot of luck OR you’ll need to send off each trial batch for testing and then figure out how much to add or subtract in order to get a soil that is well balanced (no excesses that will cause lockouts of other nutrients) and has sufficient amounts of all 14 key nutrients. Not to mention proper soil pH. I didn’t realize it would be so complicated when I first started buying ingredients in bulk - all the items you listed plus what others have listed and then some!

Had I been smart, I’d have gone with KIS Organic’s or one of BuildASoil’s kits. Especially if I was doing small batches like you mentioned. I’ll post a couple links below but they have nutrient packs and mineral packs that basically allow you to create their premium soils at home without having to spend 2X the amount to have their bagged soil shipped to you. You just decide whether you want a peat or coco or blend type soil and buy their kit. Then, you pick up the peat (my favorite) and/or coco locally (to you) along with local compost, aeration material and earthworm castings. Mix it all together and you have a proper soil to take you ALL the way through an organic grow cycle - balanced, mineralized, nutrient rich and microbially active soil! Besides, unless you purchase large quantities of amendments, you’ll end up spending more on them than buying one of Tad or Jeremy’s products anyway. So, why not take advantage of all their hard work and research and simplify your soil building?

Unfortunately, I now have a huge stockpile of amendments so I have to lean into my project. Besides, I’m building soil for a bunch of 200 gallon pots. But for you, my friend, I’d HIGHLY suggest you take a look at this option before you go mixing up a soil that may not meet your expectations despite all the variety of inputs you included.

Hope this helps!

https://www.kisorganics.com/collections/soil-amendments/products/kis-organics-nutrient-pack

https://buildasoil.com/products/mineral-mix-kit?variant=8779501895797

https://buildasoil.com/products/buildasoil-modern-mix-v2-0-complete-soil-building-kit?variant=8754888474741

https://buildasoil.com/products/l-o-s-v3-0-nutrient-mix-kit?variant=335502264

If you’re determined to create your own mix, I strongly urge you to read Steve Solomon’s “The Intelligent Gardener” before you do any mixing. He’ll explain how to balance your soil and do your own soil analysis from a (cheap) Logan Labs soil test (Mehlich 3) and he gives you easy worksheets to calculate what you need to add. Or, get a soil analyst like Aaron Crozier (www.PlantBrix.com & www.GrowRU.com) to analyze a Logan Lab test result and give you recommendations. He charges like $40 and you’ll get a spot-on instruction from a very reputable cannabis soil expert.

FWIW - Be very careful with Compost and all things with Potassium (K) in it. Excess K can wreak havoc in your soil; causing lockout issues. It’s very easy to mix up soil with excess K! Ask me how I know. Lol! Any compost with composted manures in it will be potassium-rich, if I’m not mistaken. Excess K will lock out Calcium, Magnesium, Manganese (much more important than most people understand), Iron and Zinc. Considering @Roasty McToasty comment about excess P along side the problems with Excess K, it’s easy to see why creating a soil mix out of thin air, no matter how high quality the input or how varied your ingredient list is, can be so problematic. It’s a very interesting and educating journey I’m on but it’s a HUGE pill to swallow. Again, if I had it to do over, I’d use a kit like one of those I listed.
Real nice post, can't agree more. I must have gotten very lucky with my crafted soil, built it with way less knowledge than I have now. But the produce is fantastic, and it made it the whole distance.
The nutrient pack is a great option if you can source quality compost/castings , peat, and drainage locally.
 

Wallflower82

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I like the kis / kind soil but I’d never be able to afford 70 per bag though, I’m going to check out the build a soil links, I know the soil building rout is a headache, I also don’t have space for it so I wasn’t really exited to jump into that. I had also tried some TLO organic concentrat mixed into roots, i mixed more than the instructions said but the plants look hungry... I’m starting to see some def pop up so I know this won’t carry them throughflower, so in the meantime I’ve been foliar feeding and also top dressing with earth worm castings and watering with molasses.

I’m gonna have to find something simple and cheap to top dress with or else I’m going to have to see if it’s ok to concurrently use megacrop / bud explosion with it (had heard not to mix synthetics with organics but might not have a choice).

I haven’t ordered any ingredients yet becUse I don’t know if I want to bite all that off right now, it might be more than I can chew. I had initially wanted to try biotabs but the shipping cost plus waiting almost 2 months to get it is totally out of the question for me at this time. I think a build a soil kit might be the ticket, gonna check that out now ..
 
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