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Small population photo-to-auto breeding?

parsing_trees

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First off, is there a better subforum for questions like this? I get the impression from old threads that there used to be an auto breeding subforum, but now there's only one specifically about seed feminization. I'm not a new grower, but this seems like the place for general questions. Please let me know if I should move it elsewhere.

Has anybody here successfully worked a photoperiod strain into autoflowering form while sticking to a relatively small plant count (12 or so), or is that likely to be a waste of time? I've seen some breeders mentioned that they had about 50-75 breeding candidates in the population (particularly for the F2 generation), which isn't an option in my circumstances.

I've done a couple seed runs, using pollen from either male autos or females reversed with STS, but haven't attempted any kind of line breeding yet -- just making one-off crosses with strains I like. I've read about the usual steps in photo / auto crossing to lock down the recessive autoflowering trait, Punnett squares, etc., and I'm wondering if something like the following approach would be feasible:

1. Grow several photoperiods, pollinate one or two of the female ones I like most with pollen from a male auto. These seeds will be the F1 cross, (Aa) for autoflowering, so I'd expect them to all be photoperiods with hidden recessive autoflowering.

The photoperiod would probably be Bodhi's Sunshine Daydream, with Night Owl's Blue Microverse or Mandalorian's ALF#5 as an auto trait donor, given their common lineage with SSDD's Bubbashine parent.

2. Grow out a dozen or so of the F1 (photoperiods). After ruling out herms and anything else problematic, pollinate all the females with the most vigorous male or two. Keep track of seeds came from which branch / which M+F pair. If there's a clear standout, focus on that. The seeds from these will be the F2, with about 25% AA, 50% Aa, 25% aa.

3. Since only a quarter or so of the F2 will be autoflowering, which really cuts down the number of breeding candidates, do this round in a couple passes. First, start 12, and after about 4-5 weeks cull everything except autoflowering males. Collect and store their pollen, then cull them too. Start more to go back up to 12. Repeat, possibly repeat again? And then once there are at least 2-3 solid autoflowering females, pollinate them with the pollen collected so far, again keeping track of which seeds came from which M+F pair, in case there's a clear standout later. These seeds will be the F3, which in theory should be almost entirely autoflowering.

4. Grow out the F3s, try to find ones I like, possibly do multiple batches of F3s to find standouts and then make seeds with those.

5. Depending on the results so far, maybe backcross to the photoperiod and go through similar stages again?

I'd expect all this to take a while, but once I have seeds from each stage I could put it on hold until I feel like doing the next step.
 

ThaPollinator!

chuckin' pollen & makin' seeds!
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I'll follow along. Not sure how far & fast I'll get either but we have something in common. I have some Bodhi Waking Dream going which has a SSDD daddy and WiFi as the mama. Started some Sky Lotus before these as well. Just looking for a great mom right now and will store pollen from really hearty males but mostly just backing up seeds for future use. I'd like to work up to autoflower if I end up with something I really love. I have many seeds to go through though.
:crying:
 

Olderfart

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First off, is there a better subforum for questions like this? I get the impression from old threads that there used to be an auto breeding subforum, but now there's only one specifically about seed feminization. I'm not a new grower, but this seems like the place for general questions. Please let me know if I should move it elsewhere.

Has anybody here successfully worked a photoperiod strain into autoflowering form while sticking to a relatively small plant count (12 or so), or is that likely to be a waste of time? I've seen some breeders mentioned that they had about 50-75 breeding candidates in the population (particularly for the F2 generation), which isn't an option in my circumstances.

I've done a couple seed runs, using pollen from either male autos or females reversed with STS, but haven't attempted any kind of line breeding yet -- just making one-off crosses with strains I like. I've read about the usual steps in photo / auto crossing to lock down the recessive autoflowering trait, Punnett squares, etc., and I'm wondering if something like the following approach would be feasible:

1. Grow several photoperiods, pollinate one or two of the female ones I like most with pollen from a male auto. These seeds will be the F1 cross, (Aa) for autoflowering, so I'd expect them to all be photoperiods with hidden recessive autoflowering.

The photoperiod would probably be Bodhi's Sunshine Daydream, with Night Owl's Blue Microverse or Mandalorian's ALF#5 as an auto trait donor, given their common lineage with SSDD's Bubbashine parent.

2. Grow out a dozen or so of the F1 (photoperiods). After ruling out herms and anything else problematic, pollinate all the females with the most vigorous male or two. Keep track of seeds came from which branch / which M+F pair. If there's a clear standout, focus on that. The seeds from these will be the F2, with about 25% AA, 50% Aa, 25% aa.

3. Since only a quarter or so of the F2 will be autoflowering, which really cuts down the number of breeding candidates, do this round in a couple passes. First, start 12, and after about 4-5 weeks cull everything except autoflowering males. Collect and store their pollen, then cull them too. Start more to go back up to 12. Repeat, possibly repeat again? And then once there are at least 2-3 solid autoflowering females, pollinate them with the pollen collected so far, again keeping track of which seeds came from which M+F pair, in case there's a clear standout later. These seeds will be the F3, which in theory should be almost entirely autoflowering.

4. Grow out the F3s, try to find ones I like, possibly do multiple batches of F3s to find standouts and then make seeds with those.

5. Depending on the results so far, maybe backcross to the photoperiod and go through similar stages again?

I'd expect all this to take a while, but once I have seeds from each stage I could put it on hold until I feel like doing the next step.
I think with a bit of patience you would get there. I agree that you might want to repeat generations to double up on the plants that you select from. If you are willing to do that, I suspect you should produce some great autoflower crosses. You are far more serious and careful about this than are most peeps whose efforts define the term pollen chucking.

Sounds like a whole lot of fun. I would be tempted were my circumstances more favorable, but I am blessed with too many on the shelf already great strains that I want to try out, too little space and too few grows per year to take on a real breeding project.

Good luck with it, I hope you take it on, and if you document your efforts, I would love a tag to get me in the audience.
 

Jpkindbud

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I’m interested too! Would love to see a Barney’s farm laughing Buddha made into autoflower. Not breeding now but would love the info… in a more like “ cannabis breeding for dummies” form. You know , like so easy a caveman can do it! I’ll be keeping an eye out!
 

Daipot

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I’ve been interested in starting breeding myself. Definitely watching this
 

parsing_trees

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[...] but mostly just backing up seeds for future use. I'd like to work up to autoflower if I end up with something I really love.
Same here. I'm going to be F2ing a pack of Sunshine Daydream anyway, so I figured I might as well get the photo-to-auto process started while I'm at it, and then fit in a step here and there when I can.
 

Olderfart

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Same here. I'm going to be F2ing a pack of Sunshine Daydream anyway, so I figured I might as well get the photo-to-auto process started while I'm at it, and then fit in a step here and there when I can.
Long term patient planning - not that common these days. Good on ya mate, that is the way to get something useful done. :headbang: :pighug:
 
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